I have always understood that Lattimore preferred to emphasis the meaning of the phrases over their rhythms. Title: The Odyssey of Homer AP Reading List Perennial Classics Further, the belief in goodness and the divine found in the Odyssey give people hope that fuels their perseverance. Having said that, Lattimore and Merrill are versical: Lattimore uses a six-stress line, imitating Homer's hexameter beat, and Merrill uses a strict dactylic hexameter. I'm not sure your mixture of metaphors is working, here, -- 'stripping away nuance' from Homer, a superficial manoeuvre, somehow 'results' in "a hollow shell" -- but the larger concern is that it's dubiously pejorative. I even heard him read from his translation years ago at Bard College. 7 quotes from Richmond Lattimore: 'Fate is the same for the man who holds back, the same if he fights hard. I’m intrigued in the much more inclusive scope she seems to be championing. Though it doesn't come with notes, or at least mine didn't. This oft told epic journey is a common and popular literary plot; one around which many films have been fashioned. The wildcard is Emily Wilson's Odyssey, which is a genuinely inspired and informed piece of work, but so young that it's hard to gauge its place. https://www.lrb.co.uk/v40/n08/colin-burrow/light-through-the-fog. I’m leaning toward either Alexander Pope or Robert Fagle, but I want to hear your thoughts! The Fagles, Fitzgerald, and Lattimore translations have been the most popular, but the recent translations by Emily Wilson and Caroline Alexander of The Odyssey and The Iliad respectively have been heralded as notable translations by female classicists. And both do very well with the poetry. A classic for the ages, The Odyssey recounts Odysseus’ journey home after the Trojan War—and the obstacles he faces along the way to reclaim his throne, kingdom, and family in Ithaca. Now I know she’s not what I’m looking for. The result is a hollow shell. I’m going to this epic for a look into the minds of the Ancients. Looks like you’re about to start your own epic (read)! It might be important to note that Fagles says in his own introduction that Pope's translation is the most superb ever written. Addeddate 2014-06-27 10:00:09 Identifier pdfy-T2WaiIPwOMJF1pR3 Identifier-ark ark:/13960/t3bz8w37w Ocr ABBYY FineReader 9.0 Ppi 300 Scanner Internet Archive Python library 0.6.3 Great deal!! Burrow means 'partial' in both senses: incomplete, and peculiar to Wilson. Fagles is something of a compromise. Homer’s great epic The Odyssey—one of Western literature’s most enduring and important works—translated by Richmond Lattimore. If you read Lattimore you will tell all your friends, acquaintances and passing strangers. I was just reading a bit about Wilson’s Odyssey. In 2015, I’d read Stephen Mitchell’s translation of Homer’s Iliad and adored it. The Odyssey of Homer ... About the author (1999) Richmond Lattimore was born in 1906. That’s the impression I got from that New Yorker article. Lattimore breathes modern life … Lastly, you might sometime enjoy browsing the old versions of Homer by Alexander Pope and George Chapman, which can be found online. Fagles translation is a prose translation. He died in 1984. May I ask Is it just for fun or for a class? There are plenty of scholarly responses to the translations recommendations, so I'll skip that. Find out what happens in our Book 2 summary for The Iliad by Homer. I would advise against reading the Emily Wilson translation of Homer's Odyssey. Publication date 1967 Topics Epic poetry, Greek, Odysseus (Greek mythology) Publisher New York, Harper & Row Collection americana Digitizing sponsor Google Book from the collections of The fidelity of translation is still there, word to word and line to line, but he has no feel for the work. But Lattimore comes closest. Thank you for your extremely thorough and apparently well informed response. EDIT: On the same-ish topic, has anyone here read Circe by Madeline Miller? I haven't tried Lattimore, because of this comment. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Odysseus then spent a further ten years getting home in the face of hostility from Poseidon, god of the earth and sea. Pope's is a poetic translation. We are all held in a single honour, the brave with the weaklings. He doesn't try to reproduce all of Homer's poetic effects in English -- the very thing for which Pope and Fagles are so lauded -- reasonably regarding that as impossible; rather, he tries to convey the sense and the force (or, in sum, the metaphorical 'thrust') of what Homer's poetic voice is 'saying', using those effects which contribute most to the moment and to the narrative whole. It … Have you read it already? But of course, one can't sacrifice the story for the technicalities of the poetry. This is a moderated subreddit. I know the article to which you've referred (Mendelsohn's) and while it's very encouraging, it's also somewhat misleading. An American poet and classicist, Richmond Lattimore’s translation of The Odyssey is widely considered among the best available in the English language. With that under my belt, do you think I could make it through without footnotes? Not for any class, just interested in the classics! The perseverance of the Odyssey includes the hard work and discipline that can lift individuals and entire nations out of trying times. The Odyssey of Homer Richmond Lattimore Limited preview - 2009. There are those who will fight for his honour to the last, though his Odyssey seems to be better regarded than his Iliad. Both were great reads, with the former being one of my more enjoyable reads this year. It is our intent and purpose to foster and encourage in-depth discussion about all things related to books, authors, genres, or publishing in a safe, supportive environment. I’ve always read his name as Richard. You are also gravely misrepresenting Kuhner's review, which contains rather more praise then you suggest. iliad and odyssey Dec 07, 2020 Posted By Edgar Wallace Media TEXT ID 017fe86a Online PDF Ebook Epub Library epics and discusses what they tell us about the ancient greeks share this facebook twitter print tumblr linkedin pinterest reddit whatsapp reviews iliad the iliad and odyssey The sounds of words matter, especially give the meter of the original. That forex trading pdf manuals of flowers or selected edit: I see that this has now been quite reasonably addressed in an earlier reply I didn't see before I added this one. Both were … fine. (I've only read Fagles and Lattimore, and someone else's I can't remember from my high school days.). Fagles is by no means the gold standard in modern English, and Pope's Iliad, while an incredible achievement in English verse, and in places almost miraculously effective at rendering Homer's Greek, is also spectacularly unhelpful in places. “The Iliad - Twenty Centuries of Translation” by Michael Nikoletseas compared English translations (and some Latin, French, and Modern Greek) with strict reference to the ancient test and graded them. I’d be interested to hear thoughts on it. https://kirkcenter.org/reviews/a-coat-of-varnish/. Though I made it through, I can’t help thinking there was a better way to experience that particular epic. I read it along with a prose translation I found in an old Penguin addition, and found that that helped me. Lattimore's Odyssey, however, is a turgid monstrosity. This is something to be very proud of. There are certainly problems with Wilson's approach -- as with any translator -- and hers are worth noting. I did feel Fagles lacked a bit flare that Pope gives in excess. r/WarhammerOdyssey: Warhammer: Odyssey is a MMORPG that is being developed by Virtual Realms, developer of Celtic Heroes, for iOS and Android … Her translation style strips away nuance. In this episode, we are joined by our feline co-host (Muggs) as we discuss Odysseus' and Circe's relationship in book 10 of the Odyssey. He simply doesn't get it. Miller took a creative (and I think new) swing at explaining the origins of witchcraft and how that fit in with Olympian dieties and monsters, and I really liked that aspect. Fitzgerald is a much better poet than Lattimore, but a lesser philologist, yet their overall grasp of their respective works is eerily similar. It seems this is a more plot driven, modern take which is fine. Tried and failed. I just read Dante’s Inferno translated by Allen Mandlebaum - which was surprisingly critical of the political dynamic of 13th century Florence. While it's not as 'faithful' as Lattimore's Iliad, it's a much better piece of poetry, and as comprehensive a total approach to that work as Lattimore's Iliad. However I just got a copy of Fitzgerald's Odyssey (after reading Lattimore's Iliad, funnily enough) View entire discussion ( 4 comments) More posts from the ClassicalEducation community I have read Miller's Circe and Song of Achilles . Homer's Odyssey: A Companion to the Translation of Richmond Lattimore Paperback – October 1, 1989 by Peter V. Jones (Author) 5.0 out of 5 stars 4 ratings I never noticed that! Her translation style strips away nuance. I initially was disappointed that Oddyseus didn't show up until near the end, as that was the main reason I had picked up the book, but Circe's life was very engaging and my opinion/expectation didn't detract from the reading. Both Fagles and Lattimore are vivid and exciting. iliad and odyssey Dec 04, 2020 Posted By Robert Ludlum Library TEXT ID 017fe86a Online PDF Ebook Epub Library terrible and long drawn out siege of troy remains one of the classic campaigns the iliad and odyssey quiz questions from iliad and odyssey the iliad book i 1 who is I know there are plenty of translations for Homer’s work out there. Pinterest. The Odyssey of Homer is a Greek epic poem that tells of the return journey of Odysseus to the island of Ithaca from the war at Troy, which Homer addressed in The Iliad. Homer’s great epic The Odyssey—one of Western literature’s most enduring and important works—translated by Richmond Lattimore. Fitzgerald. His Odyssey is not so great. A man dies still if he has done nothing, as one who has done much. Published on 2015-06-16 Homer's odyssey [lattimore] Save All pages. I'd recommend that you go for the ones who don't try to replicate Homeric verse, since that is utterly impossible in english anyway (as is most translated verse really). Homer's odyssey [lattimore] Click Download as PDF button and use Print as PDF in IE or Chrome or Firefox or any browser. After landing on Fitzgerald for second attempt I was sold. I’d like to try a more traditional telling first, but I could see circling back around to her version. His Odyssey isn't as good as Fitzgerald's, and his Iliad isn't as good as Lattimore's, but if you were going to read two by the same translator, they're probably the best pair you'll find. Only reason is that some professors will have a specified translation. The result is a hollow shell. The Odyssey, by Homer is a grand epic poem that tells the story of the Greek hero, Odysseus, and his journey home to Ithaca following the fall of Troy. While I usually go for authenticity, in this case I’d prefer a palatable read and that looks like Fagle, yes? Papain contains a wide array of proteolytic enzymes, incorporating a broad range of substrate specificity and optimum environments. I don't know why Mendehlson slights Fitzgerald, but not mentioning his Odyssey is almost criminally negligent. He simply doesn't get it. Interesting! Wilson's editorial claim is that because 'complete translation' is not possible, translators should, like her, embrace poetic partiality. If you're looking for help with a personal book recommendation, consult our Weekly Recommendation Thread, Suggested Reading page, or ask in r/suggestmeabook. Colin Burrow's LRB review, comparing Wilson with contemporary Odysseys by Verity and Green, is on sounder footing when he describes Wilson's "result" as "a perceptive reading of The Odyssey, but it is also a partial one.". Also good call, I would have had no idea who half the folks in hell were without the footnotes in Dante. I appreciate your defense of Lattimore. Thank you. It's really a matter of whether you want to read verse or prose. Welcome to episode 2! Homer’s great epic The Odyssey—one of Western literature’s most enduring and important works—translated by Richmond Lattimore. Alexander took Homeric quotes from the Richmond Lattimore version of 1951, but also included her own version of a single chapter of the poem—“Not… because it was felt that Lattimore… Other than that go wild (although I recommend any version that comes with extensive footnotes, I found them very helpful understanding some of the nuanced interactions between characters and the various customs). He was considered one of the leading translators of Greek classical literature. I'm not sure reading a pair by the same translator is of any particular importance at all, but if you really wanted to do that, Fagles is your best bet. I’ve read Bulfinch’s Mythology. The translations of Caroline Alexander, Richmond Lattimore, and Rodney Merrill preserve Homer's line divisions. The Odyssey of Homer by Homer; Lattimore, Richmond Alexander, 1906-1984, tr. US only it seems. But if you end up liking the Iliad, I'd recommend Lattimore for your second read. - Iliad - most online discussions pointed to Lattimore as the strongest, but I'm really having trouble catching the flow (just starting Book 3). I have only read Fagles' translation of the passage describing Achilles' shield. Viber. Our Critical Thinking Forum...Dedicated to the lifelong pursuit of Truth, Goodness and Beauty as found in the Great Books and beyond. Lattimore's understanding of how the Iliad works as a whole, from the level of diction to the level of structural irony, is remarkably comprehensive. I don't know ancient Greek and I don't plan to learn it so the original Homer will always be lost on me. However I just got a copy of Fitzgerald's Odyssey (after reading Lattimore's Iliad, funnily enough), More posts from the ClassicalEducation community, Continue browsing in r/ClassicalEducation. The site may not work properly if you don't, If you do not update your browser, we suggest you visit, Press J to jump to the feed. Pope’s seemed a more dramatic while Fagles’ seemed to be telling the story. Automatic works cited and bibliography formatting for MLA, APA and Chicago/Turabian citation styles. For that reason, I preferred Fitzgerald over Lattimore when reading in college. Reddit. Of course, nothing compares to the Greek. 1/299. That her Odyssey is problematic does not mean that it is, as you imply, merely deficient. Good time to buy in preparation for our next book reading! A classic for the ages, The Odyssey recounts Odysseus’ journey home after the Trojan War—and the obstacles he faces along the way to reclaim his throne, kingdom, and family in Ithaca. I read a New Yorker article comparing the same passage across several translations. Press J to jump to the feed. Publication date 1967 Topics Epic poetry, Greek, Odysseus (Greek mythology) Publisher New York, Harper & Row Collection americana Digitizing sponsor Google Book from the collections of 11exe 25 2013 11 43 AM 3921880 pidgin and stressed muscle. Lattimore is the darling of the academic upper echelon. Greeks today, like all of us, can use more honest hard work and hope in times of despair. There is a cadence, and it matters. Shares:4485. That isn't necessarily the same as being 'verse'. For the Odyssey I myself am partial to T.E. Looks like you're using new Reddit on an old browser. I want to do my first read through of the Iliad and the Odyssey. 2/299. Fitzgerald's Iliad is as bad as Lattimore's Odyssey, which has always suggested to me that a translator of sufficient genius to translate one well has no feeling for the other. Also, it's RichMOND Lattimore - I only say because I spent a long time also thinking it was Richard haha. Now supports 7th edition of MLA. I read Fagles' translation of it. ...Emily Wilson translation of Homer's Odyssey. Homer’s great epic The Odyssey—one of Western literature’s most enduring and important works—translated by Richmond Lattimore. From a general summary to chapter summaries to explanations of famous quotes, the SparkNotes The Iliad Study Guide has everything you need to ace quizzes, tests, and essays. I don't know why Mendehlson slights Fitzgerald, but not mentioning his Odyssey is almost criminally negligent. (Pope also only translated a small part of the Odyssey; the majority of the translation attributed to him is the work of lesser hands.). It was clear and entertaining. I really enjoyed Fagles' translation of both. She's also working on an Iliad, and estimates six years to completion if all goes well, and people leave her alone. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. The odyssey of homer richard lattimore ebook MirrorsystemLink #1 R2 SDScannerService Spybot-S D 2 Terabyte Service c program works Spybot - Equal Destroy 2 SDFSSvc. Just my experience: - Odyssey - I bounced off Fagles after reading a bit out loud. I will start with a secret: The first time I read The Odyssey outside of school, I did not love it. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. In that sense it doesn't really make a difference to pick the translator who most accurately depicts Homer because I'll never be able to give an honest opinion about it. This free study guide is stuffed with the juicy details and important facts you need to know. Download this episode (right click and save) This week’s passage is Odyssey 10.467-486: There for all our days until a year was completed we sat there feasting on… The Odyssey of Homer by Homer; Lattimore, Richmond Alexander, 1906- tr. I’d much rather take the journey with more faithful Homeric language. I read it along with a prose translation I found in an old Penguin addition, and found that that helped me. Bibliographic information. Telegram. A classic for the ages, The Odyssey recounts Odysseus’ journey home after the Trojan War—and the obstacles he faces along the way to reclaim his throne, kingdom, and family in Ithaca. Burrow admires her translation on its merits, but sees the flaw in this line of thinking: The claim that all translation is necessarily interpretative is on the face of it a description of the way things are rather than a precept that should determine practice. Lattimore's Iliad remains probably the most 'direct' and reliable translation of that work. In the Greek tradition, the war lasted for ten years. A classic for the ages, The Odyssey recounts Odysseus’ journey home after the Trojan War—and the obstacles he faces along the way to reclaim his throne, kingdom, and family in Ithaca. If you want to do a re-read of the Odyssey, consider Fitzgerald's translation. Lattimore's Odyssey, however, is a turgid monstrosity. Wilson is not an incompetent translator; that would be too easy. As with The Odyssey, I’d read The Iliad in high school (in modern Greek) and graduate school (Richard Lattimore’s translations). The fidelity of translation is still there, word to word and line to line, but he has no feel for the work. For example: And more than that—it is one of the very best verse translations ever completed in English—of any book. But it is easy to slip from the belief that translation necessarily transforms the implied ideological foundations of a text to a belief that therefore a translator ought to work those transformations consciously, and deliberately pull out of a text the features that seem to matter most for the present, while downplaying others. Lawrence (yes, Lawrence of Arabia Lawrence), it's elegant, forceful and quite understandable. 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